Report: Victim May have Taunted Deadly Tiger

News Type: Event — Seeded on Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:22 PM EST

Article Source: The San Francisco Chronicle

us-news, attack, san-francisco, zoo, tiger

San Francisco police are investigating the possibility that one of the victims in the fatal tiger mauling on Christmas Day climbed over a waist-high fence and then dangled a leg or other body part over the edge of a moat that kept the big cat away from the public, sources close to the investigation said Wednesday.

The minimal evidence found at the scene included a shoe and blood in an area between the gate and the edge of the 25- to 30-foot-wide moat, raising questions about what role, if any, the victims might have had in accidentally helping the animal escape.

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9.1

7.7

{"commentId":1305480,"authorDomain":"whyren"}

Whyren

"There is no possible way the cat could have made it out of there in a single leap. I would surmise that there was help...A couple of feet dangling over the edge could possibly have done it."

Sources said pinecones and sticks that were found in the moat might have been thrown at the animal. Those items could not have landed in the grotto naturally, they said.

I sure hope this isn't true: to think that somebody could have been that blatantly stupid?

{"commentId":1305480,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"whyren"}

5 votes

#1 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:26 PM EST

{"commentId":1305524,"authorDomain":"dirtclodis"}

DirtClod88

Okay...tease the tiger, get eaten by the tiger.

{"commentId":1305524,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"dirtclodis"}

8 votes

#2 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:37 PM EST

{"commentId":1305542,"authorDomain":"whyren"}

Whyren

I can't help but think of Homer Simpson teasing a shark through a glass-bottom boat.

"Come on Sharky. And you call yourself the king of the jungle?"

{"commentId":1305542,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"whyren"}

4 votes

#2.1 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:43 PM EST

{"commentId":1305674,"authorDomain":"SVForbes"}

ShaunV

Don't spit into the wind, don't tug on superman's cape and don't mess with a tiger.

It's not brain surgery.

But those who do it may need brain surgery. Geesh!

{"commentId":1305674,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"SVForbes"}

4 votes

#2.2 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:29 PM EST

{"commentId":1305576,"authorDomain":"geejay"}

TheJonesGirl

I have no sympathy for these boys/men. None. Tigers are not housecats.

{"commentId":1305576,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"geejay"}

8 votes

#3 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:56 PM EST

{"commentId":1305604,"authorDomain":"whyren"}

Whyren

Tigers are not housecats.

Sadly, some people seem to think so.

{"commentId":1305604,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"whyren"}

2 votes

#3.1 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:07 PM EST

{"commentId":1307079,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}

gpnavonod

I have no sympathy for these idiots....They must have teased an taunted the tiger for him to perform such athletics.
Who are these @!$%# cops ?
Do they think the tiger knows what he has done?
He [tiger] is being held for our enjoyment.....an should be protected from @!$%# teenagers with cameras an security.
And the police should have a "Special Animal Unit" to respond to such calls...with tranquilizer guns.
Is there some "doubt" that the animal might be hiding a gun?
These jerks [Police] are not avenging a death or injury........the animal simply isn't aware of what it's done.........or why it had to die at the hands of it's "captors".

WHERE IS OUR HUMANITY?

{"commentId":1307079,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}

1 vote

#3.2 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:09 PM EST

{"commentId":1305746,"authorDomain":"gwenny"}

Gwenny

Maybe it's time to just stop having zoos? Take the money we would use to imprison animals to set up areas that will attract a variety of critters in the wild with cams and sound and let folks watch from the safety of their homes. As long as we don't get TOO realistic.

{"commentId":1305746,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"gwenny"}

5 votes

#4 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:55 PM EST

{"commentId":1305760,"authorDomain":"geejay"}

TheJonesGirl

IMHO, zoos are a necessary evil, the only place many species may survive...and not all zoos are evil, San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park is one example of a zoo doing the right thing. But the SF Zoo is showing, time and again, that they don't have the ability or the space to hold many animals, if any. Holding a feeding show, which encourages the animal's aggression is just wrong.

{"commentId":1305760,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"geejay"}

7 votes

#4.1 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:00 PM EST

{"commentId":1305808,"authorDomain":"Accelerando"}

Accelerando

Why zoos may appear to be inhumane (my initial thoughts regarding the basic definition of a zoo, a bunch of animals locked up for human enjoyment), they have become an extremely valuable resource for researchers across the world who desire information on species no longer easily accessible, allowing these scientists to give better care to said species.

(And as a former resident of San Diego, the SD zoos truly are a perfect example of zoos "doing the right thing"...even as other zoos occasionally decline in standards. Thanks for the acknowledgment, TheJonesGirl!)

Most important, however, is zoos' potential to raise awareness of environment conservation and expose the public to worlds far outside the local region.

I thoroughly enjoyed your Ray Bradbury story, by the way. Thank you from the brief distraction from the reality of the world...or so it may seem.

{"commentId":1305808,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"Accelerando"}

6 votes

#4.2 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:18 PM EST

{"commentId":1306108,"authorDomain":"gwenny"}

Gwenny

IMHO, zoos are a necessary evil, the only place many species may survive...and not all zoos are evil

LOL Ah . . .that is where we will probably continue to differ. I'm much more a Darwinian and feel that evolution should be allowed to work . . .in both the animal world and human world. If we really cared about "saving" lifeforms, would not altering our behavior toward the environment be better? For me, enslaving creatures is evil, however humane you try to make it. (And, yes, I know that some are treated very well and are probably pretty happy . . . an argument that was made about human slavery.)

And that is just my opinion, one shared by few humans, so I have no problem if you don't agree. :D

{"commentId":1306108,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"gwenny"}

5 votes

#4.3 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:48 PM EST

{"commentId":1307142,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}

gpnavonod

For me, enslaving creatures is evil, however humane you try to make it. (And, yes, I know that some are treated very well and are probably pretty happy . . . an argument that was made about human slavery.) And that is just my opinion, one shared by few humans, so I have no problem if you don't agree. :D

I wish that could be the case Gwenny,but this incident was so outrageous, I nearly kicked my new HD off the wall. If you believe in G-d ...He put His beasts in our care....... an If you don't .....Then, you should know better anyway.

An animal cannot be guilty of a crime.Their not even as intelligent as a two year old human.
So killing them for a "crime" ........is just ......."Human Dumb"

{"commentId":1307142,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}

#4.4 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:30 PM EST

{"commentId":1307414,"authorDomain":"gwenny"}

Gwenny

I wish that could be the case Gwenny,but this incident was so outrageous, I nearly kicked my new HD off the wall.

Have you considered therapy or medication?

If you believe in G-d ...He put His beasts in our care....... an If you don't .....Then, you should know better anyway.

No, I don't believe in your mythical sugar daddy. Sorry. I did once. Then I got medication it might help you with this as well. And even if I did, you obviously haven't bothered to read your own myths.

{"commentId":1307414,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"gwenny"}

#4.5 - Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:39 AM EST

{"commentId":1310825,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}

gpnavonod

Gwenny

I wish that could be the case Gwenny,but this incident was so outrageous, I nearly kicked my new HD off the wall.
Have you considered therapy or medication? If you believe in G-d ...He put His beasts in our care....... an If you don't .....Then, you should know better anyway. No, I don't believe in your mythical sugar daddy. Sorry. I did once. Then I got medication it might help you with this as well. And even if I did, you obviously haven't bothered to read your own myths.

Ouch!
Gwenny, I'm sorry you misinterpeted my meaning.....that's ok.
The "you" was generic. Not personal.
As in: "If one believes in G-d......."

I wish that could be the case Gwenny

Here,I was just agreeing with you.

Speaking with you...not about you.

{"commentId":1310825,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}

2 votes

#4.6 - Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:04 AM EST

{"commentId":1306054,"authorDomain":"drdianewakat"}

Dr. Diane Wakat, PhD

My advisor used to ask 'why don't you see dead chickens on the highway anymore?' The answer? 'Because all the ones that were dumb enough to cross over a busy highway got run over, and their genes are no longer in the gene pool.'

I do hope that human intervention, especially by the young man who was killed, is not the reason for this tragedy.

{"commentId":1306054,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"drdianewakat"}

3 votes

#5 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:34 PM EST

{"commentId":1306626,"authorDomain":"protoolrobot"}

protoolrobot

Sfgate.com's latest story reads that they found concrete on the back paws of Tatiana, which leads investigators to believe she may have used the grotto wall to push her up.

Also, either this or another Chron article states that the tiger ignored other zoo patrons and tracked the two other victims to the cafe.

This leads ME to believe they agitated the tiger into attacking. If this turns out to be the case, my sympathy is less.

{"commentId":1306626,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"protoolrobot"}

5 votes

#6 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:02 PM EST

{"commentId":1306747,"authorDomain":"cyadmark"}

Chuck Yadmark

Ooohh I smell ugly lawsuit coming... He taunted the tigers!!! No he was a perfect wonderful boy!!

{"commentId":1306747,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"cyadmark"}

2 votes

#7 - Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:52 PM EST

{"commentId":1308558,"authorDomain":"jyuma"}

Johnny Yuma

Now the AP is reporting the dead kid was not the first victim of the big cat. He was trying to get the cat off his friend.

The last minutes of a 17-year-old boy's life were spent trying to save his friend from the tiger that was mauling him at the San Francisco Zoo, only to have the animal turn on him, police and family members said.

{"commentId":1308558,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"jyuma"}

3 votes

#8 - Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:13 PM EST

{"commentId":1310673,"authorDomain":"debradurham"}

Debra Durham

The consequences of this incident have been undeniably tragic for both the humans and the tiger involved. Determining liability is going to be difficult at best - the behavior of the boys/men, the design of the enclosure, security and lighting, and how the zoo kept Tatiana are all potentially factors here.

Other questions about Tatiana's behavior and well-being are in order. For example, did she exhibit signs of distress or have known behavioral problems? Tatiana had previously attacked a "keeper," for example. Was she consistently aggressive with humans or other tigers? Was she medicated?

Studies have shown that carnivore species that range widely (those that have large home ranges, travel long distances daily) are especially prone to behavioral pathologies and mortality in captivity. Tigers normally range alone and over very wide areas. Constant close confinement with other tigers falls outside the range of normal if we think in terms of the natural history of these animals.

Perhaps this particular case provides a chance to reconcile what we know about tiger behavior and biology (and the effects of captivity) with the practice of using tigers in zoos and other forms of exhibition, i.e. that we phase them out permanently.

{"commentId":1310673,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"debradurham"}

3 votes

#9 - Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:03 AM EST

{"commentId":1383392,"authorDomain":"dirtclodis"}

DirtClod88

Huh? Tatiana was a (note keyword here) T.I.G.E.R. What questions are "in order?" Would you expect her to host a discussion on the sociological aspects of tiger-human interaction with the boys?

I can reconcile tiger behavior right here: When given the chance, they run - when cornered or provoked, they attack. And sometimes, they might just SKIP the running part - hence the need for an ENCLOSURE.

Tigers definitely "exhibit signs of distress or have known behavioral problems" especially when humans naively expect them to exhibit "socially acceptable" behavior. Last time I checked, there weren't too many tigers enrolled in college.

"Was she consistently aggressive with humans or other tigers?" You don't get out much do you? Of COURSE she was aggressive! That's what TIGERS are! Seigfried and Roy thought they had "educated" a white tiger too and we see how wrong they were.

People mixing with Tigers, it's just not a good idea - regardless of our expectations of them.

{"commentId":1383392,"threadId":"194735","contentId":"1188936","authorDomain":"dirtclodis"}

2 votes

#10 - Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:17 PM EST

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Zoo Attack Victim's Family Wants Answers	Associated Press	Wed Dec 26	3
Tiger Escapes S.F. Zoo Cage and Kills 1	Associated Press	Tue Dec 25	10
S.F. Zoo's history of mismanagement; morale down under new director	The San Francisco Chronicle	Sun Dec 30	0
Tiger escapes pen, kills 1, wounds 2 on Christmas Day [videos]	http://www.reversemonster.org	Wed Dec 26	0
Tiger Escapes From San Francisco Zoo Cage, Killing 1, Injuring 2	FOXNews.com	Wed Dec 26	3

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Report: Victim May have Taunted Deadly Tiger

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